> Feminism, by its very name, is a sexist philosophy. And according to feminists, sexism (mainly patriarchy) is bad. Unless it's feminism.
That seems to imply that you don't think sexism is bad. Did you mean to imply that?
Feminism, is by definition, anti-sexist. There are sexists who claim to be feminists, but that doesn't change the meaning of the word.
While the term 'feminism' does come from the root 'feminine', it refers to an umbrella of ideologies that includes many advocates of equal rights for men as well as for women.
However, if you do believe in the value of sexism, I can definitely understand why you would dislike feminism.
Feminism, by definition, is sexist. MRA, by definition, is also sexist.
Both are centered around their own sex and "leveling the playing field" for their own gender. Feminists do not give a rat's ass about paternal child custody issues or "men's mental health" (particularly the much higher rates of suicide). Because those aren't issues where women are under-privileged. MRA's don't really care about women's issues. That's because both of these ideologies are sexist.
If you want equality that isn't sexist, try "egalitarianism". Equality for both genders (not sexist) and not only a single gender (sexist).
>Just because a movement/ideology is focused on advancing particular issues, doesn't mean they support discrimination against others groups, which is what sexism/racism/etc actually is.
White-pride groups that sing the praises of white people while not mentioning POC at all would be totally fine in your book, since they aren't supporting discrimination of POC? I think you're in the minority opinion here...
Don't get me wrong - I think that sexism/racism is about malevolent actions intended to harm or belittle or otherwise negatively discriminate against another group. But I'm of the minority opinion. Benevolent actions are considered sexist/racist nowadays, chivalry is extremely sexist. Always opening the door for women - but not always for men - is sexist.
Advocating for women's rights but not equally advocating for men's rights is therefore just as sexist as chivalry. One is an egalitarian if they're actually practicing behavior focused on equality. They can mislabel themselves as a feminist all the want, though I will call them out on promoting sexist ideology.
And yes - I've met a few "actually egalitarian but call themselves feminists". Most of them agree that egalitarian defines them better and they'd rather separate themselves from the extremely sexist "militant feminists" by labeling themselves as an egalitarian rather than a feminist.
In today's political climate, being an MRA and a feminist at the same time is like being a KKK member who's a member of the Black Panther Party.
> Don't get me wrong - I think that sexism/racism is about malevolent actions intended to harm or belittle or otherwise negatively discriminate against another group. But I'm of the minority opinion. Benevolent actions are considered sexist/racist nowadays, chivalry is extremely sexist. Always opening the door for women - but not always for men - is sexist.
Same here. There are actions that one can take that are overly sexist. Kitchen comments are common, as are "make me a sandwich", and the like.
There's also the class of subtle insults like "I didnt know you could program". They're harder to correct, but with some self discipline, they aren't that hard.
Then as you said, there's the "Not an insult at all, not even a subtle insult". I've been yelled at by a raging feminist for opening a door for her. Next time, I let it slam in her face, whilst leaving it open for her boyfriend.
I would also define myself as a staunch egalitarian. Aside pregnancy and birth, there are no differences between what a man and a woman can do. Even breastfeed....
>There's also the class of subtle insults like "I didnt know you could program". They're harder to correct, but with some self discipline, they aren't that hard.
No. Just. No.
Context matters extremely for this - and the assumption that they thought you couldn't program because of you gender is on you not them. That's why it's called an "assumption".
It's about perception. People who want to see negativity in it will and others won't. What if they're just genuinely surprised you can program because you've never talked about programming or shown you can program and it shocked them you were capable of it? How is genuine surprise an insult?
To illustrate my point:
"Your life is like a blank book."
1) You're free to write about whatever you want, to create your own decisions, and to decide what your book is going to be about. You have the ability to be anything you want to be - nobody has already written your book for you. It's yours to decide. (The common, positive perspective when this saying is used.)
2) You've done absolutely nothing in your life such that you've written nothing in the book. You're completely worthless and have accomplished nothing. If you had managed to ever accomplish anything in your life, your book wouldn't be empty. (Unnecessarily negative perspective that assumes an ill-intent where none was.)
Sexism in all of its forms is bad. That includes feminism AND masculinism.
> While the term 'feminism' does come from the root 'feminine', it refers to an umbrella of ideologies that includes many advocates of equal rights for men as well as for women.
Many (most?) definitions of feminism are along the lines of "supporting equal rights for men and women" or "equality between the sexes".
Feminism is an umbrella term for a group of ideologies, some of who do not agree with either of those definitions. In that sense my statement is not accurate. However it is still far more accurate that your attempt to use the latin root of the word to define its meaning while ignoring its use and history.
> Citation needed for italicized text
Here's one:
I am a feminist and I support equal rights for men as well women.
> Feminism is an umbrella term for a group of ideologies, some of who do not agree with either of those definitions. In that sense my statement is not accurate. However it is still far more accurate that your attempt to use the latin root of the word to define its meaning while ignoring its use and history.
In other words, you just keep moving the endposts so nothing is really "Feminism" unless you agree to it. Got it.
> Here's one: I am a feminist and I support equal rights for men as well women.
Repeat after me: The plural of Anecdote is not 'Data'
Feminism only sees to female rights in reference to 'leveling the playing field'. Any other "but they really also do ..." is just being disingenuous and deceitful.
If you support equal rights for men and women, that's egalitarianism.
> In other words, you just keep moving the endposts so nothing is really "Feminism" unless you agree to it. Got it.
That is the opposite of what I did. What I did was to acknowledge that the term feminism is used to include ideologies that I disagree with.
> Repeat after me: The plural of Anecdote is not 'Data'
Right, 'Data' is the plural of 'Datum' and I provided you with two of them. I did not make a sufficiently statistical claim that requires a representative sample to validate.
Most relevantly: "While equality feminism was the dominant perspective of feminism during the 19th and 20th century, the 1980s and 1990s brought about a new focus in popular feminism on difference feminism, or the essential differences between men and women."
> Feminism only sees to female rights in reference to 'leveling the playing field'.
I'd ask to you cite that, but I understand the impossibility of proving non-existence (especially given that I have disproven that non-existence).
> If you support equal rights for men and women, that's egalitarianism.
Egalitarianism is a different broader umbrella term with an even looser range definitions. I am amused that in defending your anti-PC rant you end up trying to control what language I use to define myself in a very PC fashion.
You are free to call yourself an egalitarian and not identify as a feminist.
I am personally proud to share the label 'feminist' with a large number people who have individually done more to promote equality in the world that you ever will. I don't mind also sharing it with a some assholes from the internet who do nothing to promote equality.
That seems to imply that you don't think sexism is bad. Did you mean to imply that?
Feminism, is by definition, anti-sexist. There are sexists who claim to be feminists, but that doesn't change the meaning of the word.
While the term 'feminism' does come from the root 'feminine', it refers to an umbrella of ideologies that includes many advocates of equal rights for men as well as for women.
However, if you do believe in the value of sexism, I can definitely understand why you would dislike feminism.